i get up and go to work everyday. So how do you tell the difference? 4) Repeated (regurgitated) misdirection of expectations. Either way, this makes you an idiot. Ever hear of Thomas Edison and his thousands of failed experiments?". You Grow. This article is straight up pointless. exposes both your bias and ignor-ance. If it wasn't funny the first time, it's not gonna be funny the fifth time. I will give your briefings, and you can analyze, what [It may well be but its about as well reasoned as saying "grass is green therefore the definition of 'green' is...grass]. It is not that the definition of insanity is, rather it is insane to do the same thing over and over expecting something different to happen. To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. You can't, or refuse to, realize this simple concept. Nice to see these things defined, but I find the ensuing argument tiresome; I don't know that he originated it, but it is one of Dr. Phil's favorite lines, not literally defining insanity, but quick way to demonstrate that repeating an action continuously in the same manner, expecting that one will achieve a specific different result is delusional, and not in sync with reality. 3) The fallicious arguments using ad_hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) attacks are at the very least and non-sequitors. Nothing! Our local sheriffs department is charging people around here with "insane and disorderly". Now if I eat a cake because I feel rubbish and that leads me to feel better for 5 minutes and worse for the rest of the time and I keep doing it daily, year after year, expecting each time that it might comfort me when all evidence shows it's ruining my life..I may lose ,y health which will lead me maybe to lose my job etc.. and i know part of your article is about weak people misusing this phrase, but there is nothing wrong with this phrase just the people misusing it. The world and the people of the world tell you how to live your life. I understand that you believe my example of Edison repeating the same experiment using different combinations makes it an "absolutely terrible example" and thus I am an idiot. You are an MBA trying to find a job where you will bring home at least $300 a week. Insanity? As for the quote "The definition of insanity is...," I was an addict(Cocaine, Pot) for many years. i think the only important point made in this acticle is : if you're surrounded by a bunch of people who get all uptight about a simple idiom be sure to phrase is it "two of the definitions of insanity are doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results (and probably the third but again don't really feel like figuring out an example)". There for what you create is as much a part of you as you are a part of what you create. Commentators here have used Edison's experiments as example, things that by their very nature require accuracy in their miniature. This is perservence, trying different things to see what out of those actually has value. Some forms of dementia, traumatic brain injury, anxiety and OCD can cause people to perseverate. As soon as you were born you gained your first two fears. The definition of insanity doesn't have anything to do with jogging. I think the confusion behind this statement is best illustrated by these two words: Perseveration: the pathological, persistent repetition of a word, gesture, or act. i know if i go to work he will walk in with my book. There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. Keep your head in the books, you should lay low on the whole 'free thought' thing...or write what you think on a piece of paper, and throw it in the garbage. You said: Instead of just jogging and seeing no or negative results, maybe that person should clean up their diet and add in a more vigorous workout regiment. It’s an open invitation. When You Want Sex, but Not with Your Partner, Psychology Today © 2021 Sussex Publishers, LLC, Why Feeling Grateful Could Lead to Questionable Behavior, Scientists Can Communicate With Lucid Dreamers While They Sleep, Your Mental Health May Affect Your Vaccine Response, The Complex Reasons Why Some Refuse to Wear a Mask. In almost every case we only know it is "insane" already because it has been tested repeatedly and found to be so. Ever aspect of my thoughts, actions etc. Is this 'AssumptiveToday.com' or 'PsychologyToday.com'? it didn't happen and i was pretty upset, you know let down. Insanity is a concept discussed in court to help distinguish guilt from innocence. And, in a way, we're lucky because we've been given a second chance. Actually, I don't think it is an "assumptive addition" -- at least, not for most of us. It's important to keep grieving, jogging and asking people for dates because these are … Should I try the same tactics next January? Psychology? 1) The addition of "failed method" makes an assumptive addition to the original quote. People are so bad at driving cars that computers don't have to be that good to be much better. Someone can lead you to your truth but can never accept that as truth for you. People often 'repeat the same thing expecting a different result.'. A persistent quest against a fear or toward a goal is often the best course of action. How Supplements Can Improve Your Sleep Rhythm, Lying to Die: Why Narcissists May Lie About Their Health. I've got nothing to hide...It's just that you worry about the stranger only if you look at him from a certain aspect. This does NOT mean I should stop trying to lose weight -- what it means is that I need a new approach. Is this a possible charge? n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior. Trying to make it idiomatic towards something that he has little knowledge of. If I point it out to my clients and work with what arises, it has value. Benjamin Franklin was one of the founding fathers of the United States of America as known today, but he was never once a POTUS. The Webster definition is Noun: the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness. "1) The addition of "failed method" makes an assumptive addition to the original quote. Your response your anger, misdirection and need to be "Anonymous". There isn't a need to delve into this any further. This is not as minutely measurable but it is still a singular concept...just one painted with a broader brush. Four years ago, something terrible happened here. I hope you enjoy friendly ribbing! “In my opinion, the best thing you can do is find someone who loves you for exactly what you are. And yes it is specific & explicit that under precisely exact initial conditions, multiple valid outcomes will occur as the experiment is repeated. When you leave no stone unturned in life’s problem, not only does it usually transform but you feel great satisfaction and empowered in the pursuit. It's not a "simple concept". today i went to work because i knew that it would happen. Truth is, you can't do the same EXACT thing everyday and expect DIFFERENT results. Example is: if you killed someone and kept the body in your house like they were alive and you truly believed that it was ok, you didn't try to hide the person and you didn't think you did anything wrong. Good mood, bad mood, ugly, pretty, handsome, what have you.” ~ Juno. Perhaps I should try joining Weight Watchers, attending group sessions, and establish a program of rewarding myself for desired behavior on a weekly basis with some small treat? If you are treating patients using transorbital lobotomy in this day and age, then that is a perfect example of insanity using THIS VERY QUOTE! I know it will happen. "Insanity" with regards to this quote then also depends on this. everyone knows you are posting as Khazeem as well. I was looking for the real definition of insanity. Please don't knock that definition when it comes to the 12 step program for it makes great sense and has a powerful message and meaning. What he did was tried thousands of different combination and formulas in an attempt to achieve a goal. If you are bad with dealing with people, try different approaches, or simply say "screw the employer, I'm gonna work for myself." Perhaps this will not work either, and I will need to try something else. I agree 100% with this reply. It appears to be great for lecturers whipping up a crowd, or to say to get an article published nowadays, but for many people, especially those like me the unemployed kind of like to hear this stuff. Marcus Burnett: What the f—? I know this is late but you don't think that Edison did the exact same experiment thousands of times using the exact same combinations and formulas while seeking a different result, do you? Not that the action, or the person is insane, but that the delusional notion that repeating the same action, and expecting that someday, if it is done often enough, or with enough vigor, results will differ, is a waste of time, and seldom leads to emotional growth, or a satisfying outcome. Edison tried thousands of combinations, which is the exact opposite of "repeating the same thing", which was Khazeem's entire point. This thinking happens everytime an addict of any description uses and ADDICTION IS A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH. The truth is that we draw that line and it is a line that is subjective. This page was last edited on 3 February 2021, at 15:53. Einstein's other famous quote doubting Quantum Physics was "God does not play dice with the universe", Same input, different outcome. These are the only two things that you will truely learn on your own. Listen to then energies of the planet through meditation. I want to be better. People who have been trained to think well and for themselves can easily see through your attempt. I'm not saying your points are wrong, far from it, I think you are correct...I just believe there is an unconsidered dimension in your reasoning. There was bad decision making of T in the past, and it could occure again in the future. It takes persistence for most of us to achieve the deeper calling that feeds our soul. Well said... John, It's a 12-stepper taking it "one day at a time." I fear the day that we begin to define personal mental wellness by using business criteria. it didn't happen at first which bothered me, so i wasn't paying attention to what i was doing and didn't finish my tasks for the day. 1) I see you missed pointing out the I used the incorrect punctuation at the end of my question: "Have you given much thought to that communication, reasoning and critical thinking process you have!". When I got clean 23 years ago I was told "The definition of insanity is". Its also contextual, no doubt attempting to fly was 'insane' in its time? We’re made to grow. If you have any grasp of science, you'd realize this is absolutely does not support "doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results". I realise you're both deliberately being somewhat silly and tit for tat(ish) but you make some valid points. I saw your comment, real and gritty, and then read the comments following, expecting some response to your heart felt statement, only to find professionals and apparently learned people hairsplitting over whether Edison used gnat hair or tungsten in order to gain a different result. Also who/what/where is the reference point? You aren’t doing enough to stop them. And then, "the definition of insanity" may arise. If so it would mean you are continuing to treat patients with a PROVEN failed method. The Legal definition is a legal term of Insanity. The use of proven facts makes this saying completely legit. Q1) you do not perceive Edison's experiments as 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results' because you wish to include the idea that Edison 'always' changed the conditions of his experiments and When you are a baby you think with your heart. i feel there is a similar problem with the example of repitition compulsion, but i don't really feel like figuring out the best way to say it so oh well. of course im still going to work tomorrow. Journalists claiming it a 'fact' to prove a point or underline their story without question for example. Of course we know that by trying different machines of flight, failing or succeeding and learning these lessons we advanced, so we can argue that as we delve down levels we can then find a level where the same processes weren't repeated over and over and therefore this doesn't qualify? Another complete UNTRUTH. It may be much more helpful if you check your FACTS and HISTORY ("And that's how its done.") If you repeat the exact same behavior you will not be following the scientific method, which is to try different things and see what happens. Please feel free to take it as you will for I am not trying to push anything on you or anyone else, as I know everyone is different and different things work for different people. Where did this saying come from? But by March, I am starting to skip sessions and I'm down to 1x a week and McDonald's is calling my name. You see everything is controled through fear and the basic human instinct of not wanting to be alone. when i click on the link for perseveration i see a lot of definitions with words like "uncontrollable" and "involuntary" and "inability". It just shouldn't be used to excuse running away from problems. You said Edison's thousands of light bulb experiments was an example of "repeating the same thing expecting the same result", which is an absolutely terrible example. That would fall into the latter definition "or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior". Although you may think that behaving in the way described is crazy, it's not the DEFINITION of insanity. what might have been much more helpful, and not made me think so poorly of an author i have never met, would be to combine this and the other phrase bash that was linked to in the beginning and talk about the problem of people who grasp anything to misuse in their issues, from word and phrases, to people and beliefs. I'm not saying you're wrong because you're an idiot (ad hominem), I'm saying you're an idiot because of how wrong you are and refusal to admit otherwise. I'm pretty sure Einstein came way before you did so I guess I believe that with the psychologists are saying insanity is totally wrong Einstein was the one that came up with what do you call someone that does the same thing over and over again and expect different results and besides you guys can't even help a depressed people so give me a break you guys know s*** and your definition of normal is garbage go back to school and learn some history before making up your own crap thank you for reading thank you for listening and thanks for posting that question yours truly your friend Jason, You're absolutely right. What's happened is that a famous person (Einstein) made a statement and people have been quoting it for generations, without realizing that what they are saying simply ISN'T true. And, I've seen too many business leaders continue to do the same thing over and over again in marketing their businesses and in motivating their people EXPECTING to get similar results and they are failing miserably because times change, people change and if you don't change with the times and you are not open and aware of changes in people (including yourself) and continue to do the same thing expecting the same results, you will fail. First of all, I would love to know the original source of it, and agree its probably not Einstein or Franklin, but we'll probably never know as it is now so ingrained in urban legend it will never be properly attributed. I took the quote quite literally when I heard it. While if you were an addict and believe me, that definition makes clear sense. While stipulating that Einstein perhaps didn't say it, if he did he was commenting on the then-new & controversial theories in Quantum Physics, which all include what's known as a Probability Function, basically obliterating what had been universally-accepted science. Write for fool, you're sure of a large audiance. Love to you my brother. By dealing directly with the fears and anxiety the behaviors can often, at the very least, soften. The author is trying to address the misuse of the word "insanity.". It is far from thoughtful OR informative. I'm not in the habit of slamming cute sayings (with one exception), but I think there's a dark underbelly to this one. Perseverance is a strong, valuable quality. Yes I DO "think" and RESEARCH... and No Edison did not "do the exact same experiment" using the "exact same combinations"!!! in fact im so upset that this fantasy runs into my real life, my boss fired me for my attitude. A typical example would be a guy who desired closeness with his emotionally unavailable mother as a child and therefore seeks out unavailable women in his adulthood. You need to listen to your own heart as to what is right for you and wrong for you. Was the air humidity constant in Edison's lab every time, were chemicals from the same country/source/factory/batch/bottle, were they kept in exactly the same conditions, exposed to the same amount of air...for the same amount of time, at the same temperature or by the same person? We did nothing about it. Insane?! Yet the essence is that we tried over and over again to fly - something we couldn't (and can't) naturally do yet despite hundreds of years of failure (and all the evidence that provides) we still expected a different result! A new theory aims to make sense of it all. You were no longer protected by your mothers body and that which once shielded your from sound and litteraly supported your every cell. With the exception of dementia and brain injury, anxiety drives most compulsive behaviors. For example, the job hunt. For example, if I only date blonde hairdressers with big boobs and all my relationships end in disaster and I keep doing it then to you I am an almost textbook definition of this quote. "I keep telling him to go to AA." I found it applicable in the realm of human behavior in addiction. $80,000 for this car and you ain't got no damn cup holder? (And no transistors, smart phones etc without Quantum Physics btw). So, you aren't using common sense. But you yourself insist that he DIDN'T do that, and had thousands of experiments where he constantly tried new combinations. since i was upset i was rude to my boss, and a client as well. You're gonna get over it and decide you're better off. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition: Insanity. Second, it is disingenuous at best and downright ignorant and insensitive to people with real mental health challenges to throw a statement around like this, and... Third, its not accurate, either. You need to remember that though we live on the same planet, no two human beings live in the same world. You see with the standard human view on time you aren't even in my world at the same time as I am in yours, for I am writing this at a different time than you are reading it. I would be all those too if that is how my mind worked. On the other hand I try to speak very gently to my 3 year old daughter over and over again regardless of her sane or insane state of mind expecting that one day she would understand that being mad at things would never resolve issues, but again, this is education and that is not changing anything in her behavior, at least for now, she is 3 year old and I expect her to be nothing less or more than what she is. because if i go work stephen king is going to walk in and show me a book he wrote with me as the main character. Get a clue! However perhaps I so enjoy the company of these people whilst I'm with them that I have decided it outweighs the inevitable break up...and because we are talking about humans here I hope for (and expect) one day to get a different result. Our society values instant gratification and persistence is undervalued. There is a desire to stop, but stopping doesn't feel like an option. Perseverance feels like striving toward a noble goal, and whether or not it's reached it there is virtue in the effort. When you were inside your mother you had no fears, no worries, no doubts or concerns. Launch your own business and do freelance work. Feel good psychology, is starting to wear thin. May every day that you live be blessed with love and grace. Incredibly, with his Sony title, Na has four wins in his past 55 starts after winning just once in his first 369 starts.And only Dustin Johnson, Justin Thomas and Bryson DeChambeau have … Trying to dig any further into it is stupid. 2) The extrapolation of "If you are treating patients using transorbital lobotomy". 21. I think it can be extended to human behaviors when people do things harmful to themselves despite all evidence that they should stop doing it. The rest has been shown to you and told to you through those around you. And, yes, that was a random absurd example, but my point is that I think I may understand a little of what you were saying. If Edison had done exactly the same thing thousands of times we would not even know his name today and he would not have invented anything. Are you insane? 1) Not of the origin people have assumed You will always be a part of it as it will always be a part of you. If you are treating patients using transorbital lobotomy in this day and age, then that is a perfect example of insanity using THIS VERY QUOTE! You should definitely have something to do, just as you should definitely have someone to love in life. There's also the psychodynamic construct called repetition compulsion where people unconsciously repeat past conflicts in an attempt at mastery. How to Talk to Children and Teens About Mental Illness, You Can't Use 100% of Your Brain—and That’s a Good Thing. Honestly whatever credibility you had going in your comment fell apart when you said Benjamin Franklin was a famous president! Good God Time. Some medications or CBT tools may prove helpful. If so it would mean you are continuing to treat patients with a "proven" failed method. I think you both however fall into the trap of only looking at 'change' or 'new/positive' results as a "result" so to speak. Let's not confuse perseveration with perseverance. It's just a quote. In reality it comes back to the first point, to do something already termed "insane" by most will almost certainly result in that outcome. It's a complete distortion of what is true. The point of the quote is precisely that following the exact same steps multiple times is extremely unlikely to yield different results. Or Are You Over-Committed? !How are you now!!?? Don't let a quaint saying blur this distinction. Thus the leadership of that company must lack common sense (insanity). Q2) my use of Edison's experiments contradicted my premise and It's weekly therapy, consistent workouts and taking time for spirituality. The whole town fell into a sort of settled melancholy, and all the people in it closed their eyes, and held their tongues, and failed the test with a whimper. So if I (or we) understand you correctly: It creates low self-esteem and affects my life negatively in many ways. Spend some time in the dungeons, and the trenches of job seeking and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. We all grow. I mean repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result may well be insane (putting aside the argument as to what the definition of 'insane' is...) but in no way does that mean it is the definition of it!
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